It may be of interest to many on the Legend Lake system on the status of the of WiFi. I visited the Granite Wireless offices in Shawano on 5/9/07 and got an update on the current status of internet WiFi service for the lake area. I was told that there currently are no plans to by Granite Wireless to proceed further on tower development of the service on Legend Lake, contrary to what was mentioned in the Smoke Signals. The reasoning is:
1) Lack of potential full time subscriber numbers to cover the $2,000 per tower investment
2) Geography challenges in erected towers that would solve the tree and hill interference (must have a straight line visibility to the source tower. Trees and hills hinder the signal
3) Political issues in getting the necessary permits for towers in the area.
It doesn't look like this will move ahead further at this time.
Thanks for the update. Can't say I'm surprised. Until we get a cable provider, DSL from Frontier (800 422-6802 ext 7804) is the way to go.
I also have a broadband package with Verizon (account established in Milwaukee ~$50 per month) and I do get wireless internet via their 'extended network' on the lake. They won't tell me for obvious reasons who their partner provider is in the area. Long story short, if you aren't able to get DSL from Frontier, try your cell provider. You may be able to get better than dial up speeds via wireless broadband.
End of the day, nothing beats cable (IMHO). Anyone know what it would take to attract a cable tv / internet provider to the area?
What type of speed are you getting with the verizon card at the lake, the dial-up is excruciating slow, best I get is 38.7 or so, and Frontier's dsl is pretty expensive and slow for broadband.
I'm kind of curious, what addition are you in? I've heard Frontier has had DSL service for a while along VV, and they finally got service - working not too bad - along Old South Branch a ways.
I'm not sure on the speed Steve. I just use it on my 6700 phone, and I haven't figured out how to use it as a modem for the latptop yet. I have an air card that I discontinued when I bought the 6700 if you want to try it out. It wouldn't be faster than DSL, but more versatile.
Tim, I was looking at a house on Spring Glenn Winter of 05 and they said the had DSL.
I think they were telling you a whopper of a fishing story in "05", as you know they just got service working not too bad up to Spotted Fawn. DSL is very distance dependent, I'd be interested in hearing how far down VV (from Keshena) people are getting OK speeds.
We are on Blue Heron and if I'm moving the office for part of the summer, I cannot live with the dial-up...just would like another option than frontier, they are not at all pirce competitive.
I guess that explains why Granite hasn't responded to two emails I've sent them over the last month or so.
Anyone around Brave Island have the DSL? Also looking for a cost -- I'm seeing $85-$89 plus $$ for a modem each month. I know this includes the phone service as well, but does this sound correct?
Just spoke with Frontier and found the following. You may or may not be able to get DSL through them. My number (Blue Heron) shows as unverified, which means I may or may not be in range. The only way to find out for sure would be to place an order...and they would expect payment if available. The rep, while very friendly and helpful acknowelegded that they were expensive and hard to work with.
For service, I was offered the following options both with $125 install on a "month to month basis, and $25 on a 1 year contract.
High Speed (up to 3mps) DSL
$48.98 1 year
$54.98 MTM
Slow (up to 256kps) DSL
$44.98 1 year
$44.98 MTM
They did verify a $89 price for high speed and phone and they have TV packages as well. They are not much good for us as we just want internet. I'll have to look in to the wireless cards.
Wow, $50/Month - that definitely is pretty crazy. I guess I can call and see if they've got any coverage for Brave Island, and then see what options/$$ are from there.
Not sure why Granite thinks there isn't a lot of demand, although I do understand the political issues.
Let me be clear about one thing here - I hate DSL. I have DSL horror storys going back to '99. I won't get into them here. I'm not a big fan of wireless either. You hit the nail on the head Steve when you said 'Must be nice to be the only game in town!'
I got in on a package offering a fully loaded phone (which I don't need) with 3 months free DSL on a 1 year contract. The math worked out better for that package than buying a minimal (required) phone line and DSL. My bill is 105 per month. Yeah, ouch. At least it's a business expense I can write off. ;)
As for that fish story Tim, Arnev Products http://www.arnev.com/contactinfo.htm at N1530 Spring Glen gets DSL and says it works great. He says there's a box at the corner of Fox Ridge and South Branch.
The rates are high for the actual speed you get, but not all that much different than what you'd pay for monthly in most cities. It always helps to have (almost) a monopoly in an area so you can make a few extra bucks! Grrrr…
John, that's good to hear DSL is working in that area. I know Frontier did some upgrades to lines, etc. down HH from Shawano and had DSL working in the Berry and Moshawquit lake area a few years a go, so maybe they extended coverage around the lake from the other end. If that's the case, our whole lake probably can get DSL.
All I know is it's nice having at least one High-Speed option after dealing with dialup for so many years. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for Cable to get extended to the lake…
If I remember correctly, T1 speed is 1.544Mbps. You stated up above the rate was: "High Speed (up to 3mps) DSL $48.98 1 year". If you're actually saying (up to 3Mbps), then I'm not seeing where the huge difference is in price?
Of course, you really shouldn't compare a T1 to DSL or Cable though, since a T1 has the same upstream as downstream speed - DSL or Cable don't.
Since I'm on Brave Island then I should be able to get DSL easily if they have it at Spring Glen.
Anyone out there that is techie (Tim) know if you can get DSL and attach to a wireless router where you can then have more than one laptop sharing the line, or is it only for a dedicated PC/IP address?
It sounds like you might/should be able to get it on Brave Island. Yes on the Wireless Router - not a problem connecting multiple laptops/PCs - no dedicated IP needed. The DSL modem Frontier provides has a built in Wireless Router, but I wasn't real happy with the signal strength. You could try it, but I ended up connecting a Linksys 802.11g/b router and disabled the built in.
I'm in Milwaukee today and finally got my laptop tethered to my 6700 so I could get run some real wireless broadband speed tests... The first problem with this connection is the lag time before it even hits a server on the internet. Running a tracert, the first server responds in 138 ms. <slow>! While I'm here in Milwaukee, using Verizon, I first get onto the net in NJ. Running a speed test http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?flash=1 using the closest physical server in NJ, I'm seeing DSL like speeds. 735 Kb/s down and 126 Kb/s up. Not too shabby depending where on the internet you want to go. Test run from the CA servers come in at 503 down, 104 up. Excellent article if you want to read up on what effects your speed on the net; http://www.dslreports.com/speed
I hope to be back up to the lake tomorrow sometime and will post wireless and dsl speed tests. I should be able to figure out, based on tracert information, whose network I'm using via wireless up there. :)
John
P.S. By contrast, my Road Runner connection to a server in Dallas just tested out at 6685 Kb/s down and 930 Kb/s up. Roughly 9 times faster than wireless or DSL. Who do we talk to about getting cable service by the lake?!?!?!?
Using Linux tools, this is from DSL at the lake to Road Runner in Milwaukee:
traceroute to Milwaukee, 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 70-100-###-##.br1.clt.wi.frontiernet.net (70.100.###.##) 78.519 ms 76.469 ms 73.370 ms 2 at-1-3-0-132.gw01.chcg.eli.net (209.210.88.29) 86.900 ms 83.601 ms 82.758 ms 3 ge-3-1-0-0.cr02.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.3.237) 80.603 ms 79.584 ms ge-3-1-0-0.cr01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.3.97) 78.339 ms 4 ge-2-0-0-0.br01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.4.142) 107.870 ms ge-1-0-0-0.br01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.4.138) 77.682 ms ge-2-0-0-0.br01.c 5 ber2-ge-8-6.chicagoequinix.savvis.net (208.174.225.193) 80.968 ms 71.134 ms 69.994 ms 6 ber2-vlan-242.chicago.savvis.net (204.70.196.25) 81.952 ms 81.134 ms 75.651 ms 7 dcr1-so-4-0-0.Chicago.savvis.net (208.175.10.97) 78.636 ms 76.570 ms 73.230 ms 8 208.175.10.2 73.455 ms 72.519 ms 72.278 ms 9 ROADRUNNER.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.79.208.62) 86.441 ms ROADRUNNER.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.79.208.42) 97.357 ms 87.379 ms 10 pos1-0.milwwignfl-rtr3.wi.rr.com (24.94.160.46) 94.239 ms pos2-0.milwwignfl-rtr1.wi.rr.com (24.94.160.38) 104.687 ms 107.878 ms 11 * * * 12 * * *
A short test, but these were the DSL rates I got at the lake ( your mileage may vary :)
Downstream speed: ~1,104 Kbps
Upstream speed: ~153 Kbps
It's about what I expected for the location. It's a little pricey for the actual speed, but given that it is in SticksVille and normally you'd pay between $35 - $45 for High Speed anyways…
Wireless tests from the lake proved to be *painfully* slow! Latency over 1000 ms. Download test ran at 104 Kb/s, upload 74 Kb/s. Barely better than dial up speed, and the latency probably puts dial up ahead of this connection. Definitely not worth the money unless you absolutely positively have to be online from anywhere. If you need to check email, weather, or the score of a ball game from the middle of the lake, go wireless. If you're setting up an office in your lake getaway, cross your fingers and order DSL.
One caveat should be made with regards to the prices you list Tim. I don't believe that price includes the required phone line. No land line, no DSL. Minimum w/ taxes and fees should come in around $70 per month
Hmmm..."No land line, no DSL"? Without a line wouldn't it be called Wireless (or just DS)? |-)
I think the cost was actually about $89/Month for the High-Speed ($48.98) plus the phone service package. Haven't checked if you can get just the High-Speed, but it looks like Steve (FoleyLodge) was saying up above that you can't. If anyone knows for sure, feel free to edit the Internet Options page - or if you know of any other ISPs for the lake, Wireless or Wired.
Re: Legend Lake WiFi Internet Service
It may be of interest to many on the Legend Lake system on the status of the of WiFi. I visited the Granite Wireless offices in Shawano on 5/9/07 and got an update on the current status of internet WiFi service for the lake area. I was told that there currently are no plans to by Granite Wireless to proceed further on tower development of the service on Legend Lake, contrary to what was mentioned in the Smoke Signals. The reasoning is:
1) Lack of potential full time subscriber numbers to cover the $2,000 per tower investment
2) Geography challenges in erected towers that would solve the tree and hill interference (must have a straight line visibility to the source tower. Trees and hills hinder the signal
3) Political issues in getting the necessary permits for towers in the area.
It doesn't look like this will move ahead further at this time.
Dave Mead
Thanks for the update. Can't say I'm surprised. Until we get a cable provider, DSL from Frontier (800 422-6802 ext 7804) is the way to go.
I also have a broadband package with Verizon (account established in Milwaukee ~$50 per month) and I do get wireless internet via their 'extended network' on the lake. They won't tell me for obvious reasons who their partner provider is in the area. Long story short, if you aren't able to get DSL from Frontier, try your cell provider. You may be able to get better than dial up speeds via wireless broadband.
End of the day, nothing beats cable (IMHO). Anyone know what it would take to attract a cable tv / internet provider to the area?
John
John,
What type of speed are you getting with the verizon card at the lake, the dial-up is excruciating slow, best I get is 38.7 or so, and Frontier's dsl is pretty expensive and slow for broadband.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
I'm kind of curious, what addition are you in? I've heard Frontier has had DSL service for a while along VV, and they finally got service - working not too bad - along Old South Branch a ways.
I'm not sure on the speed Steve. I just use it on my 6700 phone, and I haven't figured out how to use it as a modem for the latptop yet. I have an air card that I discontinued when I bought the 6700 if you want to try it out. It wouldn't be faster than DSL, but more versatile.
Tim, I was looking at a house on Spring Glenn Winter of 05 and they said the had DSL.
John,
I think they were telling you a whopper of a fishing story in "05", as you know they just got service working not too bad up to Spotted Fawn. DSL is very distance dependent, I'd be interested in hearing how far down VV (from Keshena) people are getting OK speeds.
Tim,
We are on Blue Heron and if I'm moving the office for part of the summer, I cannot live with the dial-up...just would like another option than frontier, they are not at all pirce competitive.
I guess that explains why Granite hasn't responded to two emails I've sent them over the last month or so.
Anyone around Brave Island have the DSL? Also looking for a cost -- I'm seeing $85-$89 plus $$ for a modem each month. I know this includes the phone service as well, but does this sound correct?
Thanks.
Just spoke with Frontier and found the following. You may or may not be able to get DSL through them. My number (Blue Heron) shows as unverified, which means I may or may not be in range. The only way to find out for sure would be to place an order...and they would expect payment if available. The rep, while very friendly and helpful acknowelegded that they were expensive and hard to work with.
For service, I was offered the following options both with $125 install on a "month to month basis, and $25 on a 1 year contract.
High Speed (up to 3mps) DSL
$48.98 1 year
$54.98 MTM
Slow (up to 256kps) DSL
$44.98 1 year
$44.98 MTM
They did verify a $89 price for high speed and phone and they have TV packages as well. They are not much good for us as we just want internet. I'll have to look in to the wireless cards.
Must be nice to be the only game in town!
Steve
Thanks for the info Steve.
Wow, $50/Month - that definitely is pretty crazy. I guess I can call and see if they've got any coverage for Brave Island, and then see what options/$$ are from there.
Not sure why Granite thinks there isn't a lot of demand, although I do understand the political issues.
--Tom
Let me be clear about one thing here - I hate DSL. I have DSL horror storys going back to '99. I won't get into them here. I'm not a big fan of wireless either. You hit the nail on the head Steve when you said 'Must be nice to be the only game in town!'
I got in on a package offering a fully loaded phone (which I don't need) with 3 months free DSL on a 1 year contract. The math worked out better for that package than buying a minimal (required) phone line and DSL. My bill is 105 per month. Yeah, ouch. At least it's a business expense I can write off. ;)
As for that fish story Tim, Arnev Products
http://www.arnev.com/contactinfo.htm at N1530 Spring Glen gets DSL and says it works great. He says there's a box at the corner of Fox Ridge and South Branch.
The rates are high for the actual speed you get, but not all that much different than what you'd pay for monthly in most cities. It always helps to have (almost) a monopoly in an area so you can make a few extra bucks! Grrrr…
John, that's good to hear DSL is working in that area. I know Frontier did some upgrades to lines, etc. down HH from Shawano and had DSL working in the Berry and Moshawquit lake area a few years a go, so maybe they extended coverage around the lake from the other end. If that's the case, our whole lake probably can get DSL.
All I know is it's nice having at least one High-Speed option after dealing with dialup for so many years. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for Cable to get extended to the lake…
Tim,
I pay $34 a month for roadrunner and get almost T1 speeds...
If I remember correctly, T1 speed is 1.544Mbps. You stated up above the rate was: "High Speed (up to 3mps) DSL $48.98 1 year". If you're actually saying (up to 3Mbps), then I'm not seeing where the huge difference is in price?
Of course, you really shouldn't compare a T1 to DSL or Cable though, since a T1 has the same upstream as downstream speed - DSL or Cable don't.
Since I'm on Brave Island then I should be able to get DSL easily if they have it at Spring Glen.
Anyone out there that is techie (Tim) know if you can get DSL and attach to a wireless router where you can then have more than one laptop sharing the line, or is it only for a dedicated PC/IP address?
Thanks.
Great.
Thanks Tim!
I'm in Milwaukee today and finally got my laptop tethered to my 6700 so I could get run some real wireless broadband speed tests... The first problem with this connection is the lag time before it even hits a server on the internet. Running a tracert, the first server responds in 138 ms. <slow>! While I'm here in Milwaukee, using Verizon, I first get onto the net in NJ. Running a speed test
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?flash=1 using the closest physical server in NJ, I'm seeing DSL like speeds. 735 Kb/s down and 126 Kb/s up. Not too shabby depending where on the internet you want to go. Test run from the CA servers come in at 503 down, 104 up. Excellent article if you want to read up on what effects your speed on the net; 
http://www.dslreports.com/speed
I hope to be back up to the lake tomorrow sometime and will post wireless and dsl speed tests. I should be able to figure out, based on tracert information, whose network I'm using via wireless up there. :)
John
P.S. By contrast, my Road Runner connection to a server in Dallas just tested out at 6685 Kb/s down and 930 Kb/s up. Roughly 9 times faster than wireless or DSL. Who do we talk to about getting cable service by the lake?!?!?!?
Nice article on DSL speeds John...
Using Linux tools, this is from DSL at the lake to Road Runner in Milwaukee:
traceroute to Milwaukee, 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 70-100-###-##.br1.clt.wi.frontiernet.net (70.100.###.##) 78.519 ms 76.469 ms 73.370 ms
2 at-1-3-0-132.gw01.chcg.eli.net (209.210.88.29) 86.900 ms 83.601 ms 82.758 ms
3 ge-3-1-0-0.cr02.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.3.237) 80.603 ms 79.584 ms ge-3-1-0-0.cr01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.3.97) 78.339 ms
4 ge-2-0-0-0.br01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.4.142) 107.870 ms ge-1-0-0-0.br01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net (74.40.4.138) 77.682 ms ge-2-0-0-0.br01.c
5 ber2-ge-8-6.chicagoequinix.savvis.net (208.174.225.193) 80.968 ms 71.134 ms 69.994 ms
6 ber2-vlan-242.chicago.savvis.net (204.70.196.25) 81.952 ms 81.134 ms 75.651 ms
7 dcr1-so-4-0-0.Chicago.savvis.net (208.175.10.97) 78.636 ms 76.570 ms 73.230 ms
8 208.175.10.2 73.455 ms 72.519 ms 72.278 ms
9 ROADRUNNER.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.79.208.62) 86.441 ms ROADRUNNER.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.79.208.42) 97.357 ms 87.379 ms
10 pos1-0.milwwignfl-rtr3.wi.rr.com (24.94.160.46) 94.239 ms pos2-0.milwwignfl-rtr1.wi.rr.com (24.94.160.38) 104.687 ms 107.878 ms
11 * * *
12 * * *
A short test, but these were the DSL rates I got at the lake ( your mileage may vary :)
It's about what I expected for the location. It's a little pricey for the actual speed, but given that it is in SticksVille and normally you'd pay between $35 - $45 for High Speed anyways…
Wireless tests from the lake proved to be *painfully* slow! Latency over 1000 ms. Download test ran at 104 Kb/s, upload 74 Kb/s. Barely better than dial up speed, and the latency probably puts dial up ahead of this connection. Definitely not worth the money unless you absolutely positively have to be online from anywhere. If you need to check email, weather, or the score of a ball game from the middle of the lake, go wireless. If you're setting up an office in your lake getaway, cross your fingers and order DSL.
One caveat should be made with regards to the prices you list Tim. I don't believe that price includes the required phone line. No land line, no DSL. Minimum w/ taxes and fees should come in around $70 per month
Hmmm..."No land line, no DSL"? Without a line wouldn't it be called Wireless (or just DS)? |-)
I think the cost was actually about $89/Month for the High-Speed ($48.98) plus the phone service package. Haven't checked if you can get just the High-Speed, but it looks like Steve (FoleyLodge) was saying up above that you can't. If anyone knows for sure, feel free to edit the Internet Options page - or if you know of any other ISPs for the lake, Wireless or Wired.